The Problem With Billy Graham--Part One


April 27, 2010:


Above, you see a letter from author and researcher Tom which he confirms testimony from a former 33rd degree Mason (Tom Shaw) who witnessed Billy Graham attending not only secret, high level Masonic meetings...but also explicitly satanic "black communion" rituals. You will notice (in that letter) how Mr. Shaw later paid for his "betrayal" by means of a sabotaged automobile which resulted in his wife's crippling.

Many of you may be thinking this is the craziest thing you've ever heard. Join the club. I felt similarly when I first began to run across these kinds of testimonies and indications.

I will delve into all of this in detail in Billy Graham--Part Two. But let me start at the beginning of the story:

This was a very tough subject for me as I began (some years back) taking a closer look at the occult/Antichrist/globalist world. I had always upheld Billy Graham as one of the 'giants' of the Christian faith. If I had to rank the top five 'living saints', Billy would have certainly been among them.

When I began to run into evidence suggesting the opposite might be true, I literally had to put the information away for several weeks. I didn't want to know about this kind of thing. I couldn't handle it. (This was back around 2003.)

Billy Graham had, for me at least, seemed to exude tremendous integrity. I had an impression of him being the epitome of ‘godliness’. I have viewed his great crusades as one of the highlights of American culture—the huge choir singing “Just As I Am”, the great soloist George Beverly Shea, and the way in which Graham delivered his simple, elegant sermons and authoritatively called people to come down from the upper tiers to “make a decision for Christ”.

But my perception has changed dramatically. A rather painful process.

Where exactly do we begin to see an unraveling of the Billy Graham 'mystique'? In this two-part article I wish to examine the two major dimensions to Mr. Graham--his public persona...and the other unseen, hidden, secretive side. First, what are the public perceptions of BG?

One of the more popular arguments put forward in Graham's that despite some of his strange and heretical statements over the years and despite his many 'ecumenical' shenanigans, he has nevertheless led many thousands and even millions to faith in Christ. I used to think this way myself. No longer.

In hindsight, I see this as an interestingly embellished and exaggerated notion that has floated around the conservative church world for many which has been routinely supported and reaffirmed by the Billy Graham team, by Graham himself, and much of the Christian and secular media.

Just for openers, are these folks not aware of the precipitous 'drop-off' rates among those who have uttered a prayer with a crusade counselor and then headed off into oblivion? Yet the claims of "millions" of converts continue on.

I would dare to make the assertion that...very, very, very few people are going to end up in heaven as the result of a Billy Graham crusade. Hear me out:


First of all, above and beyond the reality of huge drop-out percentages which BGEA (Billy Graham Evangelistic Association) has glossed over...there is also the fact the Graham people have routinely engaged in horrific misconduct (in my view) by sending the vast majority of it's "inquirers" (those who have 'gone forward' at a crusade) dead, lifeless apostate churches-- i.e. Catholic churches, Jewish synagogues and an array of believe-nothing, ultra-liberal, virtual anti-Bible churches.

(By the way, I wouldn't deny there is a Catholic individual here or there who has correctly understood and accepted the message of salvation, and who has rejected all the deadly apostate teachings of Catholicism...Marianism, the idolizing/worship of hundreds of "saints", rejection of Jesus as the "One Mediator" (etc.)...but I know of not a single Catholic church which has repudiated any or all the standard apostate teachings of Catholicism.)

As an example, in the July 16, 1992 issue of the Catholic Standard and Times (on page 10) it was proudly reported that there were 1,900 Catholics who "went forward" at the Philadelphia Crusade...and that all 1900 were referred to 250 parishes (Catholic churches). LINK

All 1900! Are you getting the picture here? This is 'business-as-usual' with BGEA. Here are some further quotes from a research article:

"At Billy Graham's 1984 Vancouver, British Columbia crusade, the vice-chairman of the organizing committee said, 'If a Catholic steps forward there will be no attempt to convert them and their names will be given to the Catholic church nearest their homes' (Vancouver Sun, Oct. 5, 1984).

"Billy Graham even had a Catholic priest SUPERVISE the 6,600 counselors for the Denver crusade. Information on the hundreds of Catholics who came forward were sent to a Catholic organization in Denver. (Wilson Ewin, Evangelism: The Trojan Horse of the 1990s)."

"An ecumenical advisor to the Catholic religion noted in 1989 that 'Those who come forward for counseling during a mission evening in June, if they are Roman Catholic, will be directed to a Roman Catholic 'nurture-group' under Roman Catholic counselors in their home area" (John Ashbrook, New Neutralism II, Mentor, Ohio: Here I Stand Books, 1992, p. 35).

"The Catholic archdiocese in Portland, Oregon, set a goal to supply 6,000 of the 10,000 counselors needed for the Graham crusade. All Catholics responding to the altar call were channeled to the Catholic religion. These are just a few examples of many." LINK

You can go all the way back to the early years of Graham's career and see the statements he was making back then. Here, for example, is a typical quote from Graham which he has repeated numerous times (Sept. 21, 1957 during an interview with the San Francisco News):

“Anyone who makes a decision at our meetings is…referred to a local clergyman, Protestant, Catholic, or Jewish.”

I bet you've never seen any such Billy Graham quote in your life. In terms of conservative evangelical Christianity, his statement is just bizarre. Jewish and Christian people can and should always be on friendly, neighborly terms, but there is absolutely no reconciling those two faiths. (In Evangelical Christian and orthodox Jewish circles, this goes without saying.)

He has stated such things many times over-- A year earlier (Sept. 29, 1956) Protestant Church Life magazine quoted Billy Graham in an article--

"Referring to the Billy Graham New York Crusade scheduled for May, 1957, Dr. Graham said: ‘We’re coming to New York not to clean it up, but to get people to dedicate themselves to God and to send them on to their own churches--Catholic, Protestant or Jewish."

It certainly seems to be an ominous to how such information is readily available, yet where is the uproar from the Christian media and from other top leaders? 

These startlingly anti-biblical statements have been made right out in the open, yet most Bible-believers would rate Graham with an A+.

Taking someone who has just prayed a salvation prayer at a crusade and then sending them off to a a virtual guarantee that individual will fall away into apostasy. 

Luring people into apostasy is quite literally...worse than murder. 

Read and study the Parable of the Sower (one of the most neglected and brushed-aside passages in all the Bible):

It describes how someone can receive the message of salvation with great joy, but if their "seed" of faith is then left to fall upon rocky ground (deliberately it seems, in BGEA's case), the original faith with which they joyously received the Gospel then dies away and the individual falls away to apostasy and doom.

Not that they "lost" their salvation...but that they were never genuinely converted to begin with.

Whether Billy Graham willfully and cynically did these things over all these decades...or whether he was compelled against his will...either way, the BGEA has perpetrated a veritable holocaust of apostasy--crusade after crusade after crusade, assigning thousands upon hundreds of thousands of inquirers into the hands of apostates.


Throughout the years there has developed a kind of 'vicious cycle': As Billy Graham has shown a willingness to cooperate with Catholics and synagogues, the more solid 'Bible-believing' churches have then withdrawn from participation in Graham's crusades. Thus, BGEA sees an "excuse" for inviting even more of the dead liberal, apostate churches into participation.

The bottom line result: Very, very few of Graham's inquirers are gaining access to even so much as nominally 'Bible-believing' churches. 

And even among the small handful of  "Evangelical" churches that still participate and endorse BGEA (there is a conspicuous following and virtual veneration of Billy Graham coming from Chuck Smith and the vast majority of his Calvary Chapel network of churches, as an example) there are such huge doctrinal problems in the modern-day that will result in most of the Evangelical population going into apostasy and falling from the faith.

This is somewhat of a separate issue these last days before the return of the King, Bible-believing churches are to become the target of the Great Apostasy deception, described by Jesus in the Olivet Discourse...a critical subject which I delve into often and in great detail. See here.

I know this may seem a very extreme thing to say but...even most Bible-teaching churches today are, in my view, nothing more than 'apostasy death traps' in the making. Again, read through the article below to get a better idea of this:

The Central and Critical Purpose For My Book--"Wolves In Sheep's Clothing"

And now the BGEA scenario gets even worse:

Over the years, as a matter of official policy, none of the crusade counselors have been allowed to strike up a personal relationship with the inquirers, and invite them into their lives and over to their churches...upon penalty of instant dismissal from BGEA. (The Billy Graham Christian Life & Witness Course, p. 47, Instructions A.6)

This, to me, is an extremely ominous indicator. Whoever heard of such nonsense?

Problem seems to be something worse than simple "nonsense". This policy assures that BGEA gets the inquirers into the totally dead "wolf" churches they've been assigned to...instead of coming under the mentoring influence of a devout activist Bible-believing crusade-counselor. This is one aspect that really makes my blood boil. How is such a policy...not intentional evil?

To summarize BGEA's apostasy strategy, so far:

1) A huge percentage of 'inquirers' are sent off to dead, apostate Catholic, Jewish and dead-as-a-doorknob "liberal" believe-nothing churches.

2) Devout crusade counselors who would love to draw these fledgling inquirers under their wing...are expressly prohibited from doing so.

3) Satan's last line of defense: After having directed as many as possible into apostate "cul-de-sac" churches...yes, a few are also directed to nominally "Bible-believing" churches...but as I explain throughout my book "Wolves" and here at my New Jerusalem blog, Jesus has stated bluntly and plainly...even Bible-teaching churches (albeit, ones that have several key teaching errors that play into the ongoing apostasy plot) will see the huge and vast majority of their attendees drawn into apostasy and doom.

And there are yet two more huge apostasy-inducing factors which I describe in just a moment. the time these poor souls have gone through this five-layered apostasy gauntlet...they are spiritually D.O.A. As I claimed at the outset--I believe almost no one will end up in heaven via Graham crusades.

I would concede that the inquirer who is sent to a church which at least views the Bible as the Word of God in some form or fashion...has at least some chance of picking his or her way through the Devil's apostasy minefields. But it requires a Gideon-like watchfulness and a Berean's love of the Word.


There are specific reasons why the Great Apostasy plot (described in the Olivet Discourse) is going to be so hugely successful...and it has to do with, among other things, a lack of watchfulness and a run-with-the-popular-crowd mentality. Virtually all of the big, popular 'superstar' preachers of the day are somehow missing this emerging apostasy disaster. No one is passing along Jesus' warnings in the Olivet Discourse. It's mind boggling, frankly.

And some of these "Christian" leaders are actually "in" on the plot, as you find out in reading through my book...which, by the way, is largely a collection of other folks' research (along with some of my own).

None of the big superchurches are warning of these things. None of them are pointing out this huge infiltration of satanic "wolves in sheep's clothing" who are hiding amongst the flock and taking up many of the top leadership positions.

Again, for more details, read this article...follow the article's links to a few more articles (actually, they are "chapters" from my online "book")...and watch for a few more links right here in this posting.


Firstly, when we talk about the few crusade "converts" who manage to be sent to a Bible-preaching church...please understand that this has really only been possible with crusades being held in North America.

Think about this: Outside of North America and only a few other places (South Korea, Canada, as examples) where else in the world are there networks of Bible-believing churches to which BGEA could send their thousands of "converts" from each of their crusades...for follow-up, discipleship and routine church attendance?

These things don't occur to the average mainstream Evangelical person...because it isn't really being indicated anywhere in the Christian mainstream:

Anywhere Graham has gone with his crusades other than in North America and a tiny handful of other places, where there is at least some semblance of a network of (nominally) biblical churches...there has been NO network of churches to refer all his thousands of inquirers. Thus BGEA has gone around the world creating unmitigated apostasy disasters.

It's amazing (and sad, actually) how many Evangelical mainstreamers at this point, would interject with--"but didn't they at least pray a prayer when they went forward?". Read on: We'll be touching on this misconception momentarily.

This is true of any of the crusades even in Europe or South America where there has been no network of Bible-teaching churches. Yes, in recent years (in the post-Billy Graham era) there has emerged something of a network of "Evangelical" churches in South America (for example).

But during almost all the years of the Graham crusades, there was virtually zero discipleship and/or mentoring available in the aftermath of these crusades. Thousands of fledglings falling by the wayside...with 'apostasy' being a virtual certainty, according to the Bible's "Parable of the Sower".

I would submit that the Parable of the Sower creates immense problems for the simplistic and oh-so-popular "pray a prayer--go to heaven" concept.


To find an example of one of these BGEA apostasy disasters, you could pick from a hat.

As an example, I spent most of my early childhood (up to about age 12) growing up in Germany. My Dad was a pastor who worked in church-planting ministries in Bavaria, Germany. I can report first-hand...there was no such thing as a straightforward "Bible-preaching" church. I knew of one wild-and-crazy ueber-Charismatic church in one of the larger cities in southern Germany. You had a choice of dead Catholic churches, dead Protestant churches...or something maybe even worse.

Therefore, where did BGEA send their "converts" from the 1960 crusades in Berlin and Hamburg? Answer: There was no place to send them. They were abandoned to Germany's notoriously dead-as-a-doorknob Protestant churches, along with Catholic churches and synagogues. Wolves and apostates.


Take as another typical example, the Graham crusade in Poland in 1978. The Christian media (and even a strangely supportive secular media) fairly trumpeted the impressive statistics of the hundreds and thousands who "came forward" in they do in all the crusades.

But...which Polish churches were available to these brand new "converts"? Virtually none. Communist Poland, particularly back in 1978, had only a relative handful of (superstition-riddled, Latin-only, medieval-style) Catholic churches available.

And yes, BGEA eagerly referred their thousands of inquirers from the Poland crusade to these deathtrap "churches"...hand over fist...guaranteeing a holocaust of apostasy. Something which BGEA has done thousands of times, in thousands of places, all over the world, for decades on end. Holocaust after holocaust.

Again, one of the greatly neglected and most ignored passages of Scripture of my lifetime the
Parable of the Sower, tells us that the seeds which fall on rocky ground...will then fall away and die.


I would go so far as to state the following: The manner in which BGEA pulls into town...performs a huge "dog-and-pony-show" evangelistic crusade...then leaves thousands of inquirers stranded and/or at the mercy of false anti-biblical "wolf" absolute irresponsibility at the very, very least.

More is a premeditated perpetration of mass apostasy.

There is certainly nothing biblical about 1) praying a quick prayer with an inquirer...2) turning them over, into the hands of literal wolves (by biblical definition)...then 3) disappearing into the mists forever.

If you, the reader, have dared to consider the theory which I have suggested...which is that BGEA is fundamentally a satanic operation...does not the 'bottom-line' net effect of Graham crusades such as we see having taken place in Poland indicate an evil, diabolical dimension?

Nowhere do I see that in the Scriptures, the concept of an "evangelistic" three-ring circus pulling into town, then disappearing in a cloud of dust after a few days. Paul never did any such thing. To him, evangelism encompassed the entirety of pastoring/shepherding/discipleship. What has gone on with BGEA over the years is the equivalent of a train wreck. An unmitigated disaster. A seemingly deliberate engineering of mass apostasy.

Some folks would argue--"Well, Billy has done the best that he could." How so? With the Poland crusade (as one of hundreds and thousands of examples) there was a virtual guarantee of almost 100% apostasy...from the very outset.

How many infant "prayer-sayers" will survive and go on to spiritual maturity when they have zero mentoring, zero church fellowship, zero Bible teaching?

According to the Parable of the Sower, virtually none would survive, anymore than a little baby would survive being left out in the cold of winter.

"Well, if even one were saved...". One? One genuine conversion clears Billy Graham of all these apostasy scenarios?? How so??

Yes, the Bible teaches the Gospel can be and is preached "out of spite" and by other diabolical motivations...but the diabolically motivated "preacher" does NOT receive justification because someone found faith despite that preacher's diabolical motivations. Come on now. Think it through!

No "Christian" of any degree of spiritual maturity and discernment has any business creating gigantic three-ring circus / dog-and-pony "evangelism" extravaganzas which are guaranteed to result in an apostasy train-wreck. I would ask believers to discern something here. Please.


Would it be fair to say there are false aspects to the "gospel according to Billy Graham"?

I would contend...I would argue...that Graham has been the world's most prominent propagator of what I would refer to as..."pray a prayer--go to heaven".

To be clear--I do hold to a carefully defined version of the Doctrine of Eternal Security...sometimes referred to as "once-saved-always-saved". Whom God "foreknows", He then predestines to salvation. He puts the seal of the Holy Spirit upon that person. Once the transaction has taken place, no one who has been purchased by the blood of Jesus can be removed from the Father's hand (John 10:29).

The "problem" is, of course, from the human perspective we don't know with absolute certainty who those "predestined" individuals are. Therefore, we are called upon to "work out our salvation with fear and trembling". We are asked to "examine ourselves" regarding our salvation status.

Not that we can't obtain reasonable degrees of assurance (2Peter 1:10)...but we need to carefully and faithfully maintain a course towards heaven on the "straight and narrow way".

By contrast, making a "decision for Christ" is the virtual mantra of BGEA. There is a strange and unbiblical over-emphasis on a mere momentary, single "decision".

They have even named their magazine "Decision magazine". The idea that one can simply make a "decision for Christ" and then be locked in for eternal, in my view, one of the most subtle and deadly deceptions in existence.

The Bible is replete with advisories that we are to "finish the course"..."continue steadfast in the faith"..."become more sure of our calling" implication, over a period of time...that we are to "work out our salvation with fear and trembling" (again, a process over time).

Yes, yes, yes....we can pray a prayer of salvation that turns out in the end to have been the "real deal". BUT...from the human perspective, from our personal perspective, the Bible admonishes time and time and time again that we are NOT to presume to have a lock on heaven.

Only God knows which prayer was the genuine article. Only God knows in advance which of us who simply 'prayed a prayer' will then go on to finish the course and stand firm to the end. As I said, whom He "foreknows", He then "predestines". In that technical sense, I believe in the so-called "doctrine of eternal security".

But there has been a gigantic over-emphasis on this "once-saved-always-saved" teaching (and not just on the part of Graham) a point that, practically speaking, it has become a de facto 'false doctrine' in the present day.


As Jesus clearly states...again, in the Olivet Discourse, where this deadly problem of "salvation presumption-ism" figures prominently...only "he who stands firm to the end will be saved". Here we see that He is directly addressing the problem of "salvation presumption-ism".

It is biblically incorrect, in my view, and extremely think in terms of making a lone "decision for Christ". We need to make a million decisions for Christ...over a lifetime. We need to think in terms of crossing the finishing line. That is how the Bible has depicted the sanctification/salvation process.

That is NOT to say we aren't "saved by faith"! But as the Book of James (and many other passages in the Bible) points out...a genuine faith always produces righteous living. A faith that does not produce such a dead faith, a non-saving 'faith'. As James points out--the devils also believe...and tremble.

Billy Graham, and now his son, Franklin, have stated thousands of times--"pray the prayer of salvation so that you can know tonight that you are going to heaven...".

I recently listened to a message by Franklin Graham as he was preaching at a Calvary Chapel service, saying that exact thing.

This apostasy-inducing, absolutist "you can know tonight" teaching from the Graham organization has spread across the land and even across the world throughout the latter half of the 20th century and on into the 21st. Today, in the Bible-believing church world this "pray a prayer--go to heaven" false teaching is HUGELY prevalent. Salvation "presumption-ism" is virtually universal at this point.

The flippancy and presumption that goes on in today's conservative church culture regarding salvation deadly stuff. It's one thing to have a reasonable degree of assurance of salvation. It's another thing to flatly presume and to dogmatically conclude regarding one's salvation status. 

That is precisely the point Jesus is making in the Olivet Discourse when He issues pointed, explicit, grave warnings about NOT presuming to be "saved" and that each of us MUST stand firm in the faith "until the end"....and that ONLY those who do will be saved.

This becomes absolutely critical because, in my understanding of how the Apostasy Plot plays out (read Matthew 24)...millions of mainstream Evangelicals who had been taught to believe in a PreTrib rapture but then find themselves nevertheless on Earth along with the Antichrist as the time of Great Tribulation is commencing...those millions will be in a state of utter confusion and they had expected to be removed from Earth by that time.

If you read through the Olivet Discourse, it is at this point that many "false prophets" ("Christian Evangelical" leaders who are actually satanic behind the scenes) will come forward offering safe haven and rescue: "Follow us to the desert places and to the inner rooms...".

[Read my Chapter Nine if you're interested about emerging details at the present time, regarding "desert places" and "inner rooms": Many remotely located, hidden prison camps in America, as well as numerous military installations with secret underground facilities.]

Once in isolation, these panic-stricken folks will be given an ultimatum--accept the "mark" or be thrown into the deepest dungeons. This is where the error of "salvation presumption-ism" will result in infinite tragedy: People will rationalize:

"Hey, I'm 'saved' what's the worst that could happen? How bad could it really be...for me to cooperate with these people? I can't allow them to throw my loved ones and my children into the jaws of death and imprisonment."

All those decades of "prayer-a-prayer-go-to-heaven" propaganda emanating from the Billy Graham organization...and the simplistic "once-saved-always-saved" propaganda coming from the mainstream of Evangelicalism...will result in a huge payoff for the Devil.

Jesus has predicted/prophesied this Apostasy Plot is going to meet with extreme success. The greatest single tragedy in church history.

Recall in Chapter Ten of my on-line book, I attempt to make this argument concerning PreTrib as a false which we see now, works hand-in-glove with BGEA's "pray a prayer-go to heaven" / "once saved, always saved" misdirection. Therefore (getting back to my original point)...this is one of the reasons why I argue that almost no one is genuinely converting to Christianity through the efforts of Billy Graham.


Again, the question will begin to rise in the minds of some readers--"How could there be such an individual as you are suggesting? Who would spend a lifetime deliberately involved in wolf-like deceptions and you seem to be suggesting regarding Billy Graham?"

Indeed, who would do such things? It's a good that I try to answer in Part Two of "The Problem With Billy Graham".

I'll say this for now: Ironically, in the final analysis, I do not have dogmatic conclusions to offer as to whether Billy Graham has been a full-blown wolf...or merely an unwilling participant in satanic deceptions.

I believe both categories exist: From my researching of the subject, there are 'willing' participants...and 'unwilling'--those who have been 'procured' in some fashion, and have been "taken captive".

In any case, the Bible teaches us the reality of "wolves in sheep's clothing" (the very title of my on-line "book"). As difficult as it might be for the normal mind to fathom, there ARE those who are dedicated to a lifetime of deceiving, infiltrating, and attacking of Christian fellowship circles. There are those who are explicit devotees of their dark lord and master, Lucifer.

Furthermore, they DO NOT appear as diabolically evil. The Bible explains clearly that these folks appear as "angels of light". They can have a spectacularly convincing outward appearance of spirituality and sanctification.

I have found in my research (but firstly from the Scriptures) that when the Devil creates a counterfeit "Christian" (a wolf in sheep's clothing)'s a real 'hum-dinger'. It is no simple, routine task to see through the false facades...diabolically clever deceptions from the Devil himself. Lucifer apparently is the most clever "creature" God has ever produced.

That IS the reality of the world we live in. If you've been reading though my "Wolves In Sheep's Clothing" on-line report up to may already understand a little of what I'm talking about.

Next: The Problem With Billy Graham--PART TWO

I can be emailed at



  1. My father who has been in heaven some 4 years now had Billy Graham "pegged" years ago. He knew and said so that Billy Graham was a "Wolf in sheeps clothing. My dad said so about Graham from the 50's, 60's, 70's and all the way up to his death in 2008. Southern Baptists have been in love with Billy Graham and to their own destruction. Honestly there isn't a TV preacher I could trust, not one. My grandfather was a Baptist Pastor and so is my brother. Thank God that Billy isn't fooling some of us; but it is a pity that so many do follow him and his son, Franklin and his two daughters. Even so come Lord Jesus

    1. Ironically, both my Mom and Dad "prayed for salvation" and began their Christian walk under the sponsorship of Youth For Christ, in Chicago back in the 50's. Billy Graham had been placed at the helm of that organization. Just another example of where the Devil takes an otherwise biblical ministry and places a theological liberal (and suspected wolf) like Billy Graham at the top.

      Wikipedia explains that William Randolph Hearst used his newspapers to heavily promote YFC after Graham's takeover. A very strange thing...considering that Hearst was very obviously a satanist. Just visit his castle near San Luis Obispo (a $15 tour is available) and you'll know what I mean!

  2. my spirit never cared for Billy Graham..wnenever he came on tv..I would change the channel....I get sickened when a pastor in my church quotes him or gives him any kind of recognition..the deception is so great...all you have do do is listen to a few of his interviews thanks to you tube and if you have a discerning ear...your spirit will cry..apostate!

  3. What do you think about Joyce Meyer? I liked her a lot at first, but she appears to be motivated by money more each day. She also seemed humble at first, but as her fame grows, her ego has too. I'm not saying she is a wolf, but she really sells her "resources" as a way to tithe.

    1. I hadn't seen any occult symbolism. I hadn't looked too closely. I hold to a strict application of the biblically-prescribed "male leadership" I never followed Joyce Meyer. Never listened to a single one of her sermons.

      I'd bet a dollar to a dime she holds to PreTrib rapturism (a HUGE and tragic mistake) and the whole nine yards of the FoxNews Evangelical agenda...capped by "Support the Troops"...which is code for "support the Antichrist's worldwide militarization, war after bloody war, culminating in the "abomination of desolation" in Jerusalem".

      Don't get me going!

    2. Fantastic way of putting it "FoxNews Evangelical agenda...capped by "Support the Troops"...which is code for "support the Antichrist's worldwide militarization, war after bloody war, culminating in the "abomination of desolation" in Jerusalem".

      I always wondered why I felt my teeth clinch when these money grubbers were on tv, or when I heard friends and family quote them...

    3. I'm always encouraged to run into another believer who has seen through all the hoopla and deception. There seem to be precious few. Thanks.

  4. yeah It's something to find yourself outside the thinking of many believers. I was told once to seek employment at the local drone manufacturer here..goooood money they said..(as if that's anything), I declined, saying my heart..why would I build drones for the very beast system that will later use them on myself and all who refuse the mark and worship of the man of sin. Well they had no reply after that..but I could see they were thinking about their idea's, the world, war backing they maybe steered to do..
    ..and now a few yrs later..we have those very drones flying overhead here. Only the beginning.

    oops..just admitted I'm not a pre-trib catching up'er either lol. Whenever that happens(and the catching up will) a motto is be prepared for the whole road of endurance to the end, prepared for all things, anything short of beheading etc would be a boon and being prepared maybe I might also be of any use during those times, having joy even in the midst of persecution. Besides even today many are persecuted, so any can suffer things well before any rapture happens. ..are more westerners pre-trib'ers then say those in other countries? not having a history of persecution?

    1. Thank God for a fellow non-PreTribber! I always pray Jesus' prescribed prayer (Luke 21:36) "Pray you may be able to escape all that is about to happen". After all, SOME of us have to survive to the "gathering of the elect" after the great tribulation...otherwise there would be no one to rapture!

      I agree that it is very interesting to find yourself outside of the mainstream. How have you come to be so?

    2. I beleive in the Pre-Trib rapture of the Bride of Christ because, as seen with LOT and Sodom and as stated in Gen.18:25, GOD never judges the righteous along with the wicked. Also he states in Rev.3:10 in addressing the Philadelphian Church which represents the Pre-Rapture Church that HE would KEEP THEM FROM the 'hour of temptation' speaking of the period during the pouring out of the vials of wrath. Also..2 Thess. 2:7 essential xplains that the Bride of Christ is that which letteth (hindereth) the satanic plan from being fully unveiled on the world TILL it be be taken out of the way (raptured).
      The CHURCH will suffer tribulations YES BUT will NOT go through the GREAT TRIBULATION because of all the above stated reasons. Line upon line, precept upon precept....Isa.28:10.

    3. You say the "church" will not go through the Great Tribulation...but that is PRECISELY what Jesus told Peter, James, John and His other disciples...that they SHOULD expect to go through the Great Tribulation!

      I would argue that you are incorrectly equating the "Great Tribulation" with the "Day of the Lord"...the Day of the Lord being the time of God's wrath.

      I dedicate an entire chapter in my e-book to this subject, if you're interested:

    4. all "understandings" and interpretation line upon line etc. etc. of Scripture cannot stand up to the plain words of The Lord Jesus Christ, in Matthew 24 that AFTER the tribulation of those days He will appear in the heavens.

  5. Simply put, Graham preaches a God shaped hole, Jesus proclaims ad performs a God shaped whole. He is the author and finisher of our faith and we are His workmanship.

    As much as I appreciate much of what you say Matt TwoFour, we are to take up our cross and follow Jesus, not a 2x4 to beat on our brothers. There is a whole chunk of what God is about which is missing from your understanding - I will not even begin to try and tell you as you are not my workmanship, but I will challenge you to take all you have learned thus far and put it on the altar and ask Jesus to burn up the wood. hay and stubble.

    Between 1999 and 2001 Jesus began to open my eyes to the ways things really are and much of what you say is painfully so, but you seem to have yet to see the other side of the paradox, and how the Bible and what you have learned has been leavened by wolves in sheep's clothing from the time of Paul, and that much of what you would seem to believe about salvation and hell and such is also skewed by twisted workers - in other words you are very good at pointing out the deceptions of others but blind to your own,

    I encourage you to pray this simple prayer, "Lord, in whatever way I too have been, and am yet deceived, please show me and remove from me all which prevents and opposes you."

    If we say we have no sin, no separation from God, we lie against the Truth. A good place to start would be to ask Jesus to teach you what Gehenna really is and how it came to be called hell and why. You have had one eye open, now you need the other one opened too, so that your eye should be single but not divided.

    When I asked Jesus what the Great Apostasy was, He said that it was nothing more than everyone preferring their own opinion to having the Mind of Christ - everyone being "as god", knowing....

  6. I have been reading quite a bit of your stuff, all of your book, and I agree with you on most if not all but one thing. Your comment about Christians and Jews never reconciling the two faiths, Romans11:25 talks about a partial gardening of the Jews until the fullness of the gentiles takes place. From what I understand is because the Jews rejected christ that's why us gentiles have been given the chance of salvation, but also he is going to use us to get the Jews to believe in Jesus. Until that happens christ can't and won't come back. You see we have to reconcile the"two"faiths. We believe in the same messiah, they just don't all realize it yet. It is or job from God to get them to. Make sense? I hadn't heard that passage until a month ago. Have you heard it? What are your thoughts?

    1. I'm not quite clear on what you're saying about Jews needing to be saved before Christ's return. I do think you might be missing my simple point. I was merely observing that at the present time the Jewish faith and the Christian faith are in opposition.

      There will come a time after Christ's return when the righteous "remnant' of Jews will at long last..."look upon Him whom they have pierced and they shall mourn for him, as one mourns for an only child, and weep bitterly over him, as one weeps over a firstborn" (Zech. 12:10).

      Therefore, the indication from Zechariah is that even the remnant will not have a specific faith or belief in Jesus until the very, very end. After the entire seven years are completed.

      My two cents!